Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

“Mick, as of right now it is not WRONG to lock someone up for using drugs…I am saying that law needs to be questioned…that is all I am saying…and not only am I saying it, but a lot of policy and lawmakers are now looking at the sensibility of the laws…”

Now THAT is how you debate a point. There are those here erroneously calling themselves “rational” who could learn a thing or two from Jon.

Jon, what some people don’t know is, there is a big difference between debating or having a conversation and being an outright jerkhole TELLING you what your opinion should be or what you should believe. The original poster is a condescending narcissist who doles out his beliefs and opinions and attacks those who differ. Hell, he even attacked me for PARTIALLY agreeing and conceding a point. TOTAL blind agreement is the only thing he is interested in hearing. Hence the namecalling and the reason the OP is a non-player in this conversation.

You have articulated some very valid points. There is a lot that should be done to retool the laws concerning drug use. Marijuana in particilar is something that should be legalized in SOME ways such as medicinal use. I’m very open to that. What I am NOT open to is the outright legalization of everything- heroin, crack, PCP, meth- and just let the chips fall where they may in regards to the public acting responsibly. Granted, a stoner who simply smokes a joint at home and doesn’t bother anyone until he’s sober is a far cry from a junkie out in public who is too high to know what he’s doing and kills someone. I’m not that concerned about him myself- but through his using, he’s still feeding a commerce and a criminal element that preys on people in a very malignant way.

For that reason I don’t buy the lie that these are VICTIMLESS crimes. That is why there are laws against marijuana, right or wrong and I’m not going to lose a bit of sleep or spend one second lamenting the fact that the poor stoner gets locked up. If something is against the law and you consent and choose to do it anyway, you are consenting and choosing to be criminalized and locked up. It’s pretty simple, really. And don’t give me that “breeds hate towards cops” bullcrap. EVERY law that is enforced breeds hate towards cops. Do a poll of criminals and almost every one will say they hate cops. They hate cops because they got arrested doing something illegal. Do we legalize rape and murder so rapists and murderers like cops more?

Mick put it very nicely when he said, “We in Law Enforcement do not make the Law. We Enforce it. Politicians make the Laws and the Judiciary interpret them. It is not our job to pick and choose which Laws we are going to enforce because we like this law and don’t like that one.” Bottom line is, I will do MY part to enforce the law. I will NOT undermine my fellow CO’s, my brethren officers on the street or my department by openly criticizing the laws and the incarceration of lawbreakers. I suggest to anyone who has a problem with their job in this respect to get out and stop endangering your partners.

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

“Perhaps your not in America…”

Your: Possessive. Belonging to “you”. Example: Your drugs are killing your brain.
You’re: Contraction of “You” and “are”. Example: You’re a dummy.

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

BossDogg- And he’s not a hypocrite, either. I gues that “non-partisan” argument he was using earlier doesn’t apply to him. He’s got a real bug in his bum for Fox News and Rush (real relevant to this argument, right?) And he thinks that if I make up a college degree I’d pick Art and English. What a tool.

Topic: A Broader View / Is it really as negative as it sounds?

ssandy- Stop spamming the forums. You post the same reply to every topic and insert links to web sites. If you are not in corrections or law enforcement and if you are not going to contribute to discussions, please leave this site.

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

BossDogg- I’m right there with ya bud. I have a BA with a double major in Art and English. I was too busy with my studies to get into mind-altering substances and now I’m in corrections so, like Crakinheds, I have a low tolerance for stupid along with a low tolerance for condescending self-important druggies preaching legalization. Crakinheds- I don’t think you upset anyone with what I see is one of the most intelligent posts yet.

Topic: Security Central / too many new officer

This sounds like a real time bomb waiting to go off. There are already too many full-time career CO’s in the business who are apathetic, out-of-shape and poorly trained. The last thing we need in the mix are temps who are just there for a paycheck. This is plain and simple a cost-cutting measure that is endangering lives. It will not likely change unless someone with some sense comes into power or someone gets killed.

Topic: The Club House / Hi

Only if you get arrested and come to jail with a lot of prescription meds. But seriously, no, I myself have lots of friends and family in medical, rescue and law enforcement. This just isn’t a very chatty forum. There’s only 3 or 4 members here who post anything on a regular basis. So welcome to the site. Glad to have you with us.

Topic: The Club House / Happy National Correctional Officers Week

In 1984, President Ronald Reagan signed Proclamation 5187 creating “National Correctional Officers Week.” The first full week in May has since been recognized as National Correctional Officers’ Week to honor the work of correctional officers and correctional personnel nationwide. Here’s wishing all my brethren in uniform a happy NCOW.

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

Well played, BossDogg. Well played.

EXCEPT your post was 42 paragraphs too short. You demonstrated excellent narcissism and scorn but need to be much more blustery, shrill and long-winded.

Topic: The Club House / Baaing

Never encountered this so I don’t know what to tell you. Do you have a long goatee beard? Ha-ha. Anyways, next time this happens, try saying something out loud like “sounds like someone misses his farm animals a little too much.”

Topic: Letter of The Law / # chances before drug offenders go to prison instead of rehab

GalaxyDude- Really, again with the talk of flogging? That’s not going to happen. This is NOT and will never be an “option” in this day and age.

JailNation- STOP spamming. You’ve made 5 posts in 5 different discussions all saying the same thing with your link at the bottom. Are you even READING the posts before pasting your covert advertisement for Jail Nation? I’m guessing no.

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

But Mick, he posted links to evolution and heliocentrism. Don’t look at the tired, bitter grapes pothead hippie ramblings, look at the links. They show how smart he he is so he MUST be right. One plus one does not equal three!

(snicker)

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

Whatever he’s on is some potent stuff. He can’t see the connection between crime and illegal drugs, but he somehow connects evolution with prohibition and for some reason has determined we’re cheering drunks. Poor guy. That brain is definately deep-fried.

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

I’ll try to make this simple for you. Opposing laws is not the job of a “responsible” officer. I don’t care that your panties are in a wad because I’m not an outright advocate for legalizing pot. I agree with many of the arguments FOR legalization but you are here just to troll, posture and argue so that conversation won’t go anywhere.

You are right- I do NOT care about drug addicts. I don’t care about helping them. Not only is it not my job to help them, I’m just not concerned with spinning my wheels trying to help people who choose to mess up their lives. Their bad choices are THEIR bad choices and when things go south for them because they were stupid enough to get themselves hooked on junk they KNOW will mess them up, I don’t feel compelled to waste MY good life trying to get them out of it. If that’s your thing, go for it but don’t be so chagrined when someone else doesn’t. I’m all for people who, by no fault of their own, get addicted to prescription meds or WANT help and actually make an effort to kick their addiction, but I don’t waste a moment of thought on those who don’t.

More things I don’t care about: Your convoluted connection of my opinion on enforcing drug laws to supporting Al Capones, Pablo Escobars, pedophiles and murderers and your tendency to use wild assumptions and questioning other’s experience as a tool to argue.

OK, I get it- drugs are only bad because they’re illegal. Heroin would be as dangerous as candy if legalized, addicts will suddenly become productive, responsible members of society with good judgement and no inclination to do stupid, dangerous and illegal things. Meth will no longer make teeth fall out and ravage people’s bodies. Crack addicts will no longer smoke themselves into homelessness and joblessness and, like you said, NONE of them will commit robbery or any crimes- because drugs would be OK. People only commit crimes because things are against the law. The solution is to just legalize everything instead of punishing people for breaking the law. Yea, that’s the ticket. Your work is done here. Now get the heck out of law enforcement (if you really are), take your act on the road and start on that compound already.

Topic: The Club House / Greetings

Welcome to the circus notreallyhere. You may not look old enough NOW, but stay in this business long enough and you’ll get there.

Topic: A Broader View / Are You A Knuckle Dragger?

I’m college educated and most of my friends and family are in law enforcement or are rescue & medical professionals so I really don’t get much stereotyping. I do on rare occasions have to explain the difference between a “Jailer” (aka “guard”) and “Corrections Officer” but for the most part everyone around me knows what I do and all the training I have gone through for the sake of the job. I think the BEST remedy for the image of CO as goon lies with the officers themselves. If more CO’s had more interest in training, education, professionalism and physical conditioning then that stereotype wouldn’t be quite as widespread. How many of you work with at least ONE semi-literate, overweight, lazy, rude (or any combination thereof) CO? How many of your coworkers are just there for a paycheck and aren’t very committed to the job itself? How we conduct ourselves on the job and off goes a long way towards shaping how people regard our profession.

Topic: A Broader View / Prison & Slavery - A Surprising Comparison

GalaxyDude- your post seems to suggest a creation of a slave class of citizen as a replacement for a prison system. From the very get-go this is an idea that can NEVER go anywhere. And while I’ve met quite a few individuals who would benefit from a good old-fashioned flogging, that and the collars you descibe likewise will NEVER be considered in this country in this day and age. The Bible is a terrible reference for modern punishment so you don’t further your argument going that route. Our founding fathers Washington and Jefferson lived in a completely different time so there again, your use of them as justification is invalid. You may be very well-meaning with the ideas you put forth, but they don’t have any place in our modern society. Besides that, the shrieks and howls from the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons would be deafening. I am a little puzzled how you would think that slavery would be a good model sell your ideas for modern correctons. No thank you, sir. I am not in the least interested in reading your book, intriguing as it may be

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

Well now you’ve gone from half-way sensible debate to ranting name-calling lunatic. You toss around words like “unscientific” and “hypocritical” and then you yourself make all kinds of assumptions and completely ignore the reality of what exactly drug abuse and drug addiction does to people, to the abuser AND those around him. And typical of your ilk, when faced with logic you resort to name-calling and emotion-based rhetoric. You even pretty much ignored some key points of my post- I SAID I am open-minded in the marijuana legalization debate. I’m pretty open-minded in general where it comes to more benign drugs. But if it’s illegal, my job is to do my part in it’s enforcement. Sorry you don’t like that. Talk of decency and honor coming from you is just plain ironic comedy so play another card.

No, I am not a freedom-hating fascist. I LOVE freedom from drugged-out losers destroying our society. Now, I don’t give a rip about one person’s freedom to abuse drugs when that abuse makes him steal and rob to support his habit because he can’t even work a menial job. I have no real opinion on prohibition of alcohol because 1: I don’t drink and 2: There is currently no law against it. My job relates to things that ARE illegal and I believe in upholding the law. I do hate alcoholics who get behind the wheel and kill and maim as much as I hate meth-heads. My arguments carry no weight with YOU because you aren’t concerned with the effects drug abuse has on people, you’re only concerned with some hippie emo-feely sentiment of letting everyone do whatever drugs they want regardless of what it does to society. Your argument that bus drivers can drive drunk really is a flimsy argument for letting them drive stoned.

You really reveal just how dubious your critical thinking skills are with your last two paragraphs. I re-read my post and I just can’t seem to find any references to religion or supporting the release of pedophiles and murderers. And nope, no indication that I support Al Capones or Pablo Escobars (those guys were criminals, you know. AND are currently quite dead.) No, it is not illogical to support laws that restrict the ability of morons and lowlifes to damage our society. Again, you are in the throes of a delusion that drug abuse and addiction is a “victimless” crime. I almost daily have to wrangle and fight a crackhead or stoner who just came in off the street with one or several victims in his wake. So take your libtard rhetoric elsewhere. You won’t make any headway with anyone here in this forum. Go build yourself a nice compound in a desert somewhere and gather yourself some hippies and stoners and “freedom” loving followers and have yourself a perfect utopian society. You aren’t happy obeying laws and have all the answers so go show us all how it’s done in a place where you’ll just be a danger to YOURSELF.

Topic: A Broader View / Prohibition and Victimless "Crimes" breed hate towards cops, against the fundamental principles of Civil Liberties and should be Abolished

I’m always very leery of those who advocate the abolishion of drug laws- particularly of those working in law enforcement. It makes me wonder what illegal drugs they are currently under the influence of while on duty. Look, RationalLaw, there are some very compelling reasons why most illegal drugs should be illegal. I could waste a lot of time here educating you on the myth that illicit drugs are a “victimless” crime. If you can look at the devastation drugs cause in individuals, families and whole neighborhoods and say there are no victims, you are delusional. And I’m not talking about devastation due to the legality of the thing either. I’m talking about the outright destruction of lives due to the terrible effects of the drugs themselves AND the addiction that goes with them. Comparing it to alcohol abuse is trite and myopic. I’m all for “liberty” and “pursuit of happiness.” But I haven’t seen a single meth-head who feels free and happy when he’s on the street. And I should be free from stoned school bus drivers endangering my kids and high thugs fighting my police brethren as they respond to disturbances in the public streets. Get real- people who use drugs may start out doing so “responsibly”, but we know that changes in a hurry once the drugs take hold of a person. I understand there are drugs that are somewhat more benign- like marijuana. I know there are many, many benefits to the use thereof and I am very open-minded in that debate. But in general, I’m with Mick here- if you have a problem doing your part in enforcing the law, you should get out of the business- that is, if you REALLY ARE in law enforcement at all and aren’t some drug advocate troll with an agenda posting this stuff in forums. If you ARE in the business, maybe Liberal Socialist Bleeding-Heart Defense Lawyer is more your calling.

Topic: Security Central / Tasers in the Jail?

I work in a city jail with 80 beds. It’s likely nowhere near as dangerous or unpredictable as what most of you out there work in. But ALL CO’s are armed with TASERS and Freeze +P. I simply wouldn’t work without them. We are constantly outnumbered by -at BEST, people who exercise bad judgment and at WORST, people who are just plain dangerous thugs. I have actually never had to use my TASER because every inmate I have put the red dot on has immediately backed down and complied. They have either been TASED before or have heard plenty about the experience and want NO part of it. There have been several times that, without my X-26, I would have had a good knock-down, drag-out fight where SOMEONE was going to get hurt. I’m a certified fight instructor so that someone isn’t going to be me if I can help it. It’s outright foolishness to not give officers such a great non-lethal tool. Not having them is a much GREATER liability. If your agency doesn’t equip CO’s with them, I suggest you begin fighting to change that.

Topic: A Broader View / opinions on self defense in corrections

There’s a discussion on this topic in the Education forum. As a fighter, fight trainer, martial arts instructor and certified law enforcement SSGT instructor, I have some very strong feelings on this matter. Keep in mind that ANY technique, ANY move not specifically prescribed, endorsed or taught to you by your agency opens you up to liability. If my life is in peril, all bets are off. But in any situation where a CO must defend him or herself, a job-specific fight skillset is vital. It must be simple, practical, and COURT DEFENSIBLE. You fight like you train. If you train in a karate style, you better be disciplined enough to refrain from kicking an inmate in the throat for just grabbing at your sleeve. Aikido, Jujitsu, Judo and just plain wrestling can be GREAT training for any law enforcement personnel. Just keep in mind proper use of force levels and concentrate on the PRACTICAL aspects of the art. Outside of law-enforcement-specific systems, MMA is hands down the best training. It is reality-based, practical and simple. It covers all aspects of the fight and it’s martial arts stripped of all the fancy tomfoolery (example: Tae Kwon Do) that will just get you either in trouble or outright killled. All that said, it is the responsibility of your department to provide the proper training for your job. There are several systems tailored to law enforcement- SSGT, LOCKDOWN, PPCT/Warrior Science are 3 good examples. As an SSGT instructor, I’m a bit biased towards it- but find out what is available in your area and insist on this training. We work in an environment where we are constantly outnumbered by people who aren’t the nicest, most predictible citizens. It’s very often dangerous and deadly work. I am constantly amazed and dismayed at the number of lazy, fat, out-of-shape CO’s who couldn’t care less about training or learning defense technique. If your department doesn’t provide you with good training- INSIST that they do! Your apathy- AND your agency’s indifference can cost you your life.

Topic: Everything Education / C.O. Combat Training.

Squeeze- that makes absolutely no sense. It’s the kind of backward thinking that gets people hurt. You have good cause to be concerned. And as for the litigation factor you and LockDownDogPa referenced, the BEST way to avoid lawsuits is proper training. An officer with good duty-specific defense training has the skill to properly act with the exact amount of necessary force appropriate to the situation. You take your average officer with NO such training and put him or her in a dangerous situation and your liability skyrockets. Even the average martial artist is a significant liability. for the last 25 years I’ve trained in everything from Tang Soo Do to Aikido to Kali and more- and MOST of what I learned is not appropriate for my job. Unless the situation is extremely dire, I can’t eye-gouge and throat-kick and re-direct-clothesline inmates onto the back of their heads on the concrete. When we get new hires, I worry about the ones who have martial arts training as much as the ones who have none. Are they going to have the proper skills and the ability to know what is appropriate for any given situation? This is an important question.

Topic: Everything Education / C.O. Combat Training.

On Jan. 29th of this year, an inmate strangled Corrections Officer Jayme Biendl to death at the Monroe Correctional Complex in Washington state. She was working alone and unarmed in the prison chapel. The inmate, Byron Scherf, serving a life sentence without parole after being convicted of first-degree rape and kidnapping in 1997, was allowed free movement within the facility when he attacked and killed Officer Biendl. It really doesn’t take a genius to figure out the many, many things that was wrong about this scenario. AFTER the fact, the Governor vows reforms that will make the prison safer for officers. The time to do this is BEFORE someone is killed, not after!

The very nature of a C.O. job puts the officer in potential harm’s way on a daily basis. We’re in a confined environment and for several hours every work day we are outnumbered by, at worst very bad people and at best by people who exercise poor judgement. In light of this I am very annoyed that C.O.‘s are typically the LEAST trained to handle risk and the LEAST trained to defend themselves in a violent event in population or to defend themselves if attacked. I am lucky in that I have an extensive background in the martial arts- including MMA. Last year my department sent me to our academy for law-enforcement-specific combat training and I am now a certified SSGT instructor. It has made a HUGE difference in my ability to remain safe on the job. I now have a whole new skillset tailored to my environment and I’m more confident than ever I’ll know what to do when things go bad. I’m very interested in hearing my fellow C.O.’s thoughts and experiences with what training they are given (or NOT given) for the job. Are YOU trained and properly equipped at YOUR facility?

Topic: The Club House / Just Asking.....

This seems to be a common thing with corrections forums. I actually came here because I was looking for an alternative to another forum I frequent. It’s the same way there- lots of looking, little contribution. I’m not sure why this is. Maybe C.O.‘s are just used to being in the background and aren’t as forthcoming when it comes to speaking out about the job. Maybe too many are just in it to get a paycheck and too few are committed to the job and the culture. I don’t know. As for myself, I’m a dedicated C.O. and proud of my job. I use a lot of my spare time learning more about corrections and the law so I spend a fair amount of time in forums like this. I’m one of those guys who likes to read and respond- but I only do so if I have something of substance to say. I don’t post for the sake of posting. So you won’t see a LOT from me- but what you do see I hope is a good contribution.

Topic: The Club House / Where in the world are you

City of Anniston Municipal Jail, Anniston, Alabama.